Announcement - Gen 9 SV National Dex UU Metagame Discussion (2024)

This is a discussion that has been lurking in the shadows, brewing for a bit now. I think we're approaching what could almost be considered a balanced metagame at the moment. Obviously monthly shifts could screw that over at a moments notice, but that's the world we live in. So, without further ado, I would like to present my thoughts on what should be considered broken and ban worthy at the moment.

No. 1:

Dondozo is, bar none, the single biggest issue with the meta at the moment imo. I know the common arguments about how defensive mons are less obviously broken than offensive ones, and while I do agree that's the case I'm still astounded at how this monster has flown under the radar so long. Dondozo runs two sets, both of which are almost identical.

This mon does one thing, and that one thing is incredibly important: if you are a physical threat in the metagame, you don't break dondozo. Not only do you not break dondozo, you potentially allow it to set up and sweep. It doesn't matter if you've collected boosts, you get walled. It doesn't matter if you have base 165 attack, you get walled. Sure there are some threats it may not switch into comfortably, MHeracross and Iron Hands are the two most recent threats I've seen that could constitute this, but if it gets in at 100% and awake against them it will win the 1v1. Additionally, it's probably the best abuser of terastalization we have at the moment, with tera dragon completely flipping all of its weaknesses and forcing your opponents to play the game of chicken that tera is so notorious for at the moment. But even if terastalization did get banned, I don't think the threat this mon poses would diminish to the point that it shouldn't be banned anyway.

One of the main arguments against dondozo's ban is it's lack of reliable recovery. This is a weakness, yes, but as proven by the two sets it runs rest is more than just a viable option. I would almost run it over recover sometimes, to prevent it getting toxic stalled, and without it you should just always be running the move. It's bulk is so immense that it doesn't even care if its moves are random for two turns, if you get unlucky you can just rest up again and fish for a second curse, or an attack to finish off your opponent and go on to sweep. This mon wins far too many matches by coming in once than it has any right to as a stall mon. Against well constructed teams it shouldn't be able to do that, but all the same I've seen it happen time and time again.

The next common argument is its poor special defence. This is true, it does take 60-80 from the vast majority of unboosted special hits. The issue is that it doesn't get OHKOed. And once again its physical bulk is so immense that unless you have another special attacker in the back, it kills your special threat with +1 waterfall/liquidation/whatever attacking move you have and your physical attackers bounce off for 15%, letting it just rest back up. While this trade happens less in practice than it does on paper, it is still a tool in dozo's arsenal if it needs to go for a hail Mary in the endgame. And this is before you even consider the almost perfect defensive core it creates with clefable, let alone blissey.

Finally, pp stalling. This I actually agree with, the easiest way to deal with dozo is to pp stall it. The issue then becomes; what pp stalls it? Subroost kyurem can, but dozo is already switching out of subroost and kyu can often be scared of coming in on it for fear of eating 50% from a body press. You can switch around it, but then you're eating hazard and waterfall chip. You can try and wall it, but, as we've already seen, it doesn't care about status because of resttalk. On top of that, what's walling a +6/+6 dozo? I can tell you something that will. Your own dozo. And that's it. Now you're in a position where the only option on both sides is to see who's dozo has more pp. This ditto has gotten so crazy that I'm now running -speed nature and 0 speed IVs on my dozos because I don't want to flinch my opponent's dozo with waterfall when we're both maxed out.

I have had multiple games come down to dozo vs dozo dittos, where the one who wins is the one with the more pp. I have had games where it has swept single handed from 1-4 down with no support other than one special threat on the opposing team dead and the other weakened slightly. It's counterplay is so limited that it forces mons like kyurem and MGyarados on teams, which are some of the best mons in the tier in their own right but, as the saying goes, "broken shouldn't check broken." Get this mon out of the tier.

No.2:

Can you tell I think stall is a little too powerful at the moment? That being said, this one I feel much less strongly about, and I won't be going on at nearly as much length on. Mega Sableye is the best hazard denier in the tier, with it being perfectly fine to switch into many common rockers and recover off damage, as well as potentially cripple them with knock off and burns. The reason I don't think this mon is banworthy, though, is because of how much pressure it comes under during a game.

Sure, it finds its way in against common rockers like ttar, hippowdon, iron treads and blissey, but it almost never does so for free. If you're playing a sentient player, they won't click rocks the first few times they get their rocker in, but you're forced into sableye just in case they do, and that means chip. You get to 40 and have to recover? Now you're staring a wallbreaker or stallkiller in the face and have to switch. Conversely, there are plenty of hazard setters it doesn't beat. As I'm now running on my stalls, rocks clefable forces it out and sets rocks. HO Mold Breaker excadrill couldn't give two sh*ts about it; you're only there to set rocks anyway so it doesn't matter if you get burned, plus you can even run toxic and potentially cripple said MSab. Who the hell knows what a mew is going to do, so I'd almost much rather switch to blissey against it than risk random nasty plot dazzling gleam. These options are limited, but not impossible to slot onto teams, especially once we achieve a balanced meta and balance clef can start showing up again. Still, with all this being said, I do recognise that MSab is incredibly good, and I can understand why people would like it to be banned. I just don't agree that it's as warping as some of the threats I'm also going to talk about.

No.3:

Now we're talking. Consistently ranked no.1-3 on many people's personal rankings, mega gyarados is probably the single biggest threat in this tier. It's switch ins are limited at the best of times, it's counters even more sparse, and the team style it finds itself on often gives it exactly the inch it needs to run away with games at the drop of a hat. MGyara is almost HO exclusive, you can find it on rare BOs too, and its unique combination of traits make it almost impossible to handle. Mold Breaker lets it boost through unaware. Base 155 attack is insane for a sweeper, potentially letting it claim kills without needing to click dragon dance at all. Power whip as coverage makes it nigh unwallable, forcing a tera out of the aforementioned dondozo to counter it, and just in case you get comfortable with your tera dragon curse sets as counterplay it'll whip out taunt instead to ruin your day. What makes MGyara probably a bit more divisive, however, is that it's counterplay is slightly more available than dondozo.

For stall, skarmory and tangrowth are both viable picks, and both can potentially handle MGyara. For BO, scarf meowscarada is probably the best revenge killer in the tier because of MGyara. For HO, you have focus sash sweepers that allow you to even potentially reverse sweep off it. The issue I find with this is a stipulation of what I just said about meowscarada. It's as good as it is almost solely because of MGyara. As I've found at least, tangrowth can be handy for stall, but its main job is handling MGyara. And focus sash doesn't even work for HO if hazards are down. The support it needs to end games is minimal, and it can often switch in turn 4 after an excadrill lead and grimmsnarl screens, then just win. Many of its other checks are flimsy at best. Kyurem can die to +2 adamant crunch, or even +1 if it's sufficiently chipped. Iron hands is incredibly uncommon on teams, and if the opposing gyara happens to be z rather than mega then it's potentially lights out to an EQ. It has enough bulk to live hits from serperior and kill back with two +1 crunches. And to top it all off, every counter you can come up with is always at the mercy of a couple waterfall flinches. With some of the games I've had, if they were in a tour context I'd probably have spawned a couple of Lavoses.

I'm not sold on a ban for this mon despite all this, but the more I'm looking at it the more I'm leaning towards it being oppressive.

No.4:

Between this, Mega Gyara and Big Dozo, I'd say this completes the trifecta of what I would consider the unhealthy side of the meta. So much stuff that could be used just isn't because you need a reason not to just use kyurem. Subroost is massively popular at the moment because of how prevalent stall is, which can go both DDance + Icicle Spear and freeze dry + earth power. Specs is the most powerful wallbreaker in the tier. Roost 3 attacks is one of my favourites on BO, with modest having almost the perfect speed tier in my experience. This is possibly the second mon that requires a dedicated check on stall, the first being MGyara, because of how destructive it is otherwise. And which check that is varies by set. The safest switch is always blissey, which beats specs most of the time. But this can be exploited by subroost, which then forces you to double out to clefable, which doesn't enjoy icicle spear, or skarmory, which doesn't enjoy freeze dry. Once you know the set it's less of an issue, and tera steel clefable is pretty consistent at dealing with it, but the fact that I have to mention tera in its counters as the second best option should be a red flag.

To add to all this, it may not have the best defensive typing, but its bulk is considerable even without investment. Living +2 crunch from non-ada MGyara is not something to sneeze at, especially when it has roost in its arsenal. Add that to how little support it needs to enter the game, as well as abusing the omnipresent tera water gliscor more reliably than anything else, and you have possibly the most constraining mon on BO to ever exist. It's almost impossible to run anything over it, and it causes massive issues for every other style without dedicated checks and counters.

No.5:

Aegislash is an interesting one. I think this, along with the final mon I'd like to talk about, is probably the next thing that needs talking about for bans from what I can see of the current meta. Aegislash runs two sets commonly, and has many more that it can potentially run viably. Since this post is already a mile long, I won't get into too many details because I don't think these mons are a pressing issue before the top 4 are looked at. The main thing to note here is that the only ironclad counter to aegislash is gliscor. Every other check can be worked around in some way because of the sheer offensive versatility this mon provides. Definitely one to keep an eye on, though I think we'd need to see a meta without Dozo, MGyara and Kyuwu first.

No.6:

Oh hey, would you look at that, the no.1 most used mon in the tier, who'd have thunk? Gliscor's omnipresence is part of what makes a lot of mons good, and a lot of others bad. It's presence shapes the metagame around it almost in a way nothing else does. You might ask "But doesn't this sound warping and constraining? Why is it not a pressing issue?" This is why I bring this up at all, because that's correct, it does warp the metagame. The reason I consider it healthy rather than unhealthy is because for every mon it makes bad, it makes another good. It allows for mons to adapt to it, while many of the others on this list don't, due to ice coverage being relatively plentiful and its role on every team it's on being that of utility. It will eternally harass the opponent, but never threaten a win unless all your mons that beat it are dead and you don't have enough survivability left to outlast it.